650B

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Re: 650B

Postby RamX » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:24 pm

I have a 2010 Stumpjumper Carbon Pro that I would like to try a 650b wheel set on. I really like the 29r feel on the Epic but 650b may be the best option for aggressive trail and all mountain riding.

Does anybody have a set that I could check the fit and maybe demo for a ride?
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Re: 650B

Postby RamX » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:54 pm

My Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Pro has been converted over to 650B. The larger wheels improved the handling at high and low speed. As an added bonus it raised the bottom bracket height by 3/4 inch making it a little easier to peddle through the rough stuff.
Hubs- Chris King ( Re-purposed from Ellsworth I'd)
Rims- Stan's Arch EX
Tires- Maxis Crossmarks exc

The tires just barely fit but the performance gains are worth it. The Stumpy is again my weapon of choice for the technical trails I love to ride.
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Re: 650B

Postby tenbsmith » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:21 pm

Nice looking bike.

How much your bottom bracket raised would depend on a combination of rim radius and tire size. If you went with a larger tire on a 26" wheel you can pick up a good bit of overall wheel radius. On my 26er hardtail, I maxed out wheel radius by going with WTB Wolverine 2.25 in tires. Not much clearance left with those tires on.
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Re: 650B

Postby trhoppe » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:50 pm

Question, what is the diameter of those and how much clearance do you have?

I put 26" 2.4 Ardents on my Remedy. Those suckers are 690mm or 27.2" in diameter and have about 1/4" clearance.

Wondering if a 2.25 650b Ardent might be an overall better choice. I get a less volume tire and get some more weight in the wheel which is stiffer/lighter than the rubber. The 2.4 Ardent on the back is a BEAST but I have to keep the pressure up or it wallows.

-Tom
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Re: 650B

Postby joelfehrman » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:24 pm

RamX wrote:My Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Pro has been converted over to 650B. The larger wheels improved the handling at high and low speed. As an added bonus it raised the bottom bracket height by 3/4 inch making it a little easier to peddle through the rough stuff.
Hubs- Chris King ( Re-purposed from Ellsworth I'd)
Rims- Stan's Arch EX
Tires- Maxis Crossmarks exc

The tires just barely fit but the performance gains are worth it. The Stumpy is again my weapon of choice for the technical trails I love to ride.
Image


Curious if you noticed any improvement in rollover with the 650s. I'm running 650b up front only and think it's a very modest improvement in rollover compared to 26". It doesn't roll like a niner at all. I've continued to run the 650b front wheel mainly because I like the slacker setup.

Any noticeable improvement in rear traction?
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Re: 650B

Postby Treybiker » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:40 am

trhoppe wrote:Question, what is the diameter of those and how much clearance do you have?

I put 26" 2.4 Ardents on my Remedy. Those suckers are 690mm or 27.2" in diameter and have about 1/4" clearance.

Wondering if a 2.25 650b Ardent might be an overall better choice. I get a less volume tire and get some more weight in the wheel which is stiffer/lighter than the rubber. The 2.4 Ardent on the back is a BEAST but I have to keep the pressure up or it wallows.

-Tom


What hoops are the 2.4's wallowing on? I ran those low(23ish lbs), on flows, (not the EX) and Charger Pro's and they held well.
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Re: 650B

Postby RamX » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:05 am

The tire diameter for the Maxxis Crossmark 2.10 is ~700mm

The main reason I wanted to try the 650b conversion was to improve traction in the corners and through the rough stuff. I tried putting 2.4s on and there was just too much flex in that size tire. I feel like there is more traction at high speed and control at low speed with the 650b x 2.1 over the 26 x 2.4 in setup. More than once I have stalled out forward motion climbing through a rock garden due to pore line choice, and was able to chose a new line with out unclipping and complete the run. The improvement in traction also helps when climbing steep loose climbs.
The improvement in rollover was modest at best and not as good as on my 29r

The original 26in hoops were second generation Stan’s ZTR 355. I know these rims were not ideally suited for the task of an all mountain bike, but they held up true for ~10,00 miles of my lack of skill.
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Re: 650B

Postby trhoppe » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:17 am

Treybiker wrote:
trhoppe wrote:Question, what is the diameter of those and how much clearance do you have?

I put 26" 2.4 Ardents on my Remedy. Those suckers are 690mm or 27.2" in diameter and have about 1/4" clearance.

Wondering if a 2.25 650b Ardent might be an overall better choice. I get a less volume tire and get some more weight in the wheel which is stiffer/lighter than the rubber. The 2.4 Ardent on the back is a BEAST but I have to keep the pressure up or it wallows.

-Tom


What hoops are the 2.4's wallowing on? I ran those low(23ish lbs), on flows, (not the EX) and Charger Pro's and they held well.


I've got them on Flow EX. The front is perfect at 24 psi but I run 32
In the back. Then again the 2.25 in the back was also awesome at that high of a pressure.

It's not like this setup sucked at the Enduro yesterday. A more skilled rider could have won easily with my bike :) Was only 1:15 back on 25 minutes of downhill.
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Re: 650B

Postby dgaddis1 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:26 pm

Any of you guys have issues with the tire buzzing the underside of the fork crown when bottomed out? There's a local here w/a converted Santa Cruz (forget which model, and what fork) and his tire will just buzz the crown, so he runs the front end stiff enough to keep it from bottoming out.
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Re: 650B

Postby trhoppe » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:39 pm

If you are rubbing the fork crown something is very wrong, as you'll rub that little arch WAY before the crown.

That's probably what is actually rubbing. I had the same thing when I stuffed an Ardent 2.4 into a Reba 29er fork. My dish wasn't 100% perfect and it was rubbing in places where I compressed the tire enough.

The awesome mechanic at Cahaba cycles at Bump and Grind slightly redished my front wheel to perfectly center it, and bam done.
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Re: 650B

Postby dgaddis1 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:53 pm

trhoppe wrote:If you are rubbing the fork crown something is very wrong, as you'll rub that little arch WAY before the crown.


It's pretty common actually I think.

The arch moves with the tire, but the fork crown wasn't designed to clear the (slightly) larger tires.

Here we go, found this pic of the rider I mentioned. Fox fork of some sort. Compare the 'top' of his tire to the dust seals in the lowers, then imagine the seals up where the zip tie is, there's not much clearance left between the tire and crown, and there's still room for the fork to compress a little more.

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Re: 650B

Postby trhoppe » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:01 pm

Oh I see what you are saying. My rockshock crown is way out of way compared to that.
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Re: 650B

Postby dgaddis1 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:05 pm

I don't remember what tires he's using either...
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Re: 650B

Postby kevrider » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:42 pm

i use a manitou r7, tires are 2.25, there is no rubbing with this combo.
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Re: 650B

Postby Treybiker » Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:18 am

trhoppe wrote:Oh I see what you are saying. My rockshock crown is way out of way compared to that.


Just popped back on here after forgetting about the subject....

You run 32psi in the rear on a 2.4 ardent mounted on Flow EX's??? :shock: Man, I'm bigger and ran my Remedy hard in corners and never had any wallowing happening with 23-25 psi, (going by a Lezyne CNC pump for what its worth). I think I ran a 2.25 as 25-26, and a 2.4 at 23-25 psi and it was perfect at soaking up smaller ground clutter. I kind of have this weird habit of putting just a little too much pressure in my tires, riding/warming up, then bleeding a little out to where I like it. There are a lot of variables of where I ride, air temp, and my butt-o-meter that day.

Also, THE CROWN ON A FORK WILL TRAVEL BELOW THE FORK'S ARCH! Sorry to yell, but when you bottom a fork out, the crown will drop below the arch. So before you start doing any out of the laboratory testing, make sure you let the air/spring out of your fork and compress it with the wheel/tire on to see what happens. Not to mention, converting a bike to 650b just raises the BB height which raises your COG, and makes for a poorer handling bike. Not sure why someone would compromise one thing to have something of equal or lesser value, but to each his or her own.
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